[Geojson] [Geowanking] [georss] openARML augmented Reality Markuplanguage ~ extended KML?

[Carl Reed]

To follow up on Greg's comments.

A few weeks ago, I attended Intergeo 2009 in Karlsruhe. I saw detailed demonstrations of some of the work being done by Fraunhofer for emergency services, disaster management, and alerting. A blend of mapping (2d and 3d), AR, CAD/GIS/BIM integration, and sensor fusion. Very impressive. I also saw a really cool AR type demonstration from CPA Systems (http://www.cpa-systems.de/). They had a CityGML file for all of Stuttgart (LOD3). The file was stored in its native format (no translation) in a database on a server. They had a game boy control linked to low end laptop that was linked wirelessly to the internet. They had a client application on the laptop that allowed the user to use the gameboy to control driving through the virtual city. All the urban model information was rendered directly from the CityGML file on the server. Very impressive. No hercky jerky. As they say, evidence that XML is not the enemy. Their next step is to fuse other layers, such as tree and annotation, into the virtual scene. They are also working on deploying a mobile version of the application. Everything they are doing is standards based - but very video game in concept.

 To add to the mix, there are now a number of applications for BIM (IFCs) <=> CityGML transformations, such as the work by Bentley or Snowflake or Onuma/BimStorm.

And finally a number of organizations, such as Hitachi, are intensively researching standards based approaches that blend indoor navigation and AR. And not a word about GIS - all the content is coming from CAD drawings.

And, Anselm, CityGML encodes position, orientation, metadata, and relationships as well as semantics.

I think the "pure" AR community would be well served to understand and learn from existing work.

Carl



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: greg at howesdevelopment.com 
  To: anselm at hook.org 
  Cc: geojson ; geowanking at geowanking.org ; georss at lists.eogeo.org ; Carl Reed 
  Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 7:38 PM
  Subject: RE: [Geowanking] [georss] openARML augmented Reality Markuplanguage ~ extended KML?


  GeoWankers,


  Here is a thought from a real-world builder.  I consider this relatively important given that the size of the building industry in the U.S. is typically $1.3 trillion - and even in the current down market it is $850 billion.


  Billions of existing CAD files (granted, most are simply 2D) already exist on architects' hard drives.  The very last thing the design and building world need is ANOTHER standard.  I consider it the very height of geo-arrogance that the wanker community considers GIS data more important than CAD/CAM/BIM data.  Don't overlook the fact that most people have far more interest in interacting with building data (especially their own house) than with GIS data.  THe importance and relevance of GIS data becomes many times more important when mashed-up with other data.  John Hanke publicly stated that he co-created Keyhole as a platform for real estate visualization.


  Before you rush off to create yet another standard why not do a little due diligence and look at Carl Reed's existing work for the OGC regarding standards GIS-CAD-BIM and the design world's ongoing battle over standards for 3D geometry and object-level meta-data.  


  I fully agree with David Colleen's views that supporting existing standards will inevitably prove far more beneficial.  I also believe it will open up unprecedented business opportunities for those willing and able to overlook their own domains and the ubiquitous silo-thinking that one finds in both academia and the commercial world.  


  You can choose a different approach and remain years behind the augmented and virtual reality work already being done by the many Fraunhofer institutes.  Bear in mind that much of this work is very much standards compliant and supported by large industries in Germany and elsewhere.  I suspect this year's ISMAAR conference will further confirm who is really doing serious work mashing up data in real world commercial applications. 


  Or one can simply ignore it and choose irrelevance.


  A builder's perspective,


  Greg Howes

    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Re: [Geowanking] [georss] openARML augmented Reality
    Markuplanguage ~ extended KML?
    From: Anselm Hook <anselm at gmail.com>
    Date: Fri, October 09, 2009 1:23 pm
    To: Carl Reed <creed at opengeospatial.org>
    Cc: geojson <geojson at lists.geojson.org>, geowanking at geowanking.org,
    georss at lists.eogeo.org

    A few other subjective notes:

    4) Perhaps one more feature would be to look at how hard it is to
    decorate the description of the geometry with style hints - is style
    attached as a kind of CSS or the like?

    5) And one other thing is ( a personal thing ) is it easy to multiply
    instance a geometry?

    6) Finally, for me, I just like the cleanest tidiest smallest grammar
    - one that let's me read it easily; that is terse... I know that the
    conceptual notations are not tied to XML but I do like to see JSON
    expressions or tidier expressions. I'm not a big fan of the XML
    <markup> style notations because these days there is nothing that is
    outside the markup zone. Markup meta-data today far overwhelms the
    unmarked regions. Therefore it seems to make little sense to have the
    heavier tags. You could just say something like "title { }" or
    "title: " instead of <title>blah</title>.

    7) I sure like having math operators in my grammar. CSS, even HTML for
    me are sadly lacking and end up being very verbose. I know we all want
    dirt simple parsers but I also really want some minimal abstraction.
    This is why I like HAML and SASS - for terseness. It doesn't have to
    be a fully procedural grammar with conditional expressions but the
    fully dumb declarative grammars cause a lot of needless repetition
    that doesn't very well capture the abstractions that are self-evident
    to a human author.

    Anyway... sorry to ramble on... I just do feel those are all empirical
    tests which could be used to measure the utility of a new grammar
    especially for AR which is now effectively making video-game concepts
    mainstream... how well it maps the problem space and how easily humans
    can understand it... aside from the more mundane expected details of
    capturing position, orientation, velocity, meta-data, relationships
    and other kinds of things that one might want to capture.

    - me

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