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<DIV>To follow up on Greg's comments.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A few weeks ago, I attended Intergeo 2009 in Karlsruhe. I saw detailed
demonstrations of some of the work being done by Fraunhofer for emergency
services, disaster management, and alerting. A blend of mapping (2d and 3d), AR,
CAD/GIS/BIM integration, and sensor fusion. Very impressive. I also saw a really
cool AR type demonstration from CPA Systems (<A
href="http://www.cpa-systems.de/">http://www.cpa-systems.de/</A>). They had a
CityGML file for all of Stuttgart (LOD3). The file was stored in its native
format (no translation) in a database on a server. They had a game boy control
linked to low end laptop that was linked wirelessly to the internet. They
had a client application on the laptop that allowed the user to use the gameboy
to control driving through the virtual city. All the urban model information was
rendered directly from the CityGML file on the server. Very impressive. No
hercky jerky. As they say, evidence that XML is not the enemy. Their next step
is to fuse other layers, such as tree and annotation, into the virtual
scene. They are also working on deploying a mobile version of the application.
Everything they are doing is standards based - but very video game in
concept.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> To add to the mix, there are now a number of applications for BIM
(IFCs) <=> CityGML transformations, such as the work by Bentley or
Snowflake or Onuma/BimStorm.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And finally a number of organizations, such as Hitachi, are intensively
researching standards based approaches that blend indoor navigation and AR. And
not a word about GIS - all the content is coming from CAD drawings.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And, Anselm, CityGML encodes position, orientation, metadata, and
relationships as well as semantics.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think the "pure" AR community would be well served to understand and
learn from existing work.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Carl</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=greg@howesdevelopment.com
href="mailto:greg@howesdevelopment.com">greg@howesdevelopment.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=anselm@hook.org
href="mailto:anselm@hook.org">anselm@hook.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=geojson@lists.geojson.org
href="mailto:geojson@lists.geojson.org">geojson</A> ; <A
title=geowanking@geowanking.org
href="mailto:geowanking@geowanking.org">geowanking@geowanking.org</A> ; <A
title=georss@lists.eogeo.org
href="mailto:georss@lists.eogeo.org">georss@lists.eogeo.org</A> ; <A
title=creed@opengeospatial.org href="mailto:creed@opengeospatial.org">Carl
Reed</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 09, 2009 7:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Geowanking] [georss]
openARML augmented Reality Markuplanguage ~ extended KML?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
<DIV>GeoWankers,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Here is a thought from a real-world builder. I consider this
relatively important given that the size of the building industry in the U.S.
is typically $1.3 trillion - and even in the current down market it is $850
billion.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Billions of existing CAD files (granted, most are simply 2D) already
exist on architects' hard drives. The very last thing the design and
building world need is ANOTHER standard. I consider it the very height
of geo-arrogance that the wanker community considers GIS data more important
than CAD/CAM/BIM data. Don't overlook the fact that most people have far
more interest in interacting with building data (especially their own house)
than with GIS data. THe importance and relevance of GIS data becomes
many times more important when mashed-up with other data. John Hanke
publicly stated that he co-created Keyhole as a platform for real estate
visualization.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Before you rush off to create yet another standard why not do a little
due diligence and look at <A
title="Carl Reed's existing work for the OGC regarding standards GIS-CAD-BIM"
href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.opengeospatial.org%2Ffiles%2F%3Fartifact_id%3D28092&ei=3uLPStX0IZCaMMLDpZQD&usg=AFQjCNEF6ElPoKpxBiiHZrwYj44ONaKbFQ&sig2=xMR6Xk89nbi5_MaKrzuLuw"
target=_blank
mce_href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.opengeospatial.org%2Ffiles%2F%3Fartifact_id%3D28092&ei=3uLPStX0IZCaMMLDpZQD&usg=AFQjCNEF6ElPoKpxBiiHZrwYj44ONaKbFQ&sig2=xMR6Xk89nbi5_MaKrzuLuw">Carl
Reed's existing work for the OGC regarding standards GIS-CAD-BIM</A> and the
design world's ongoing battle over standards for 3D geometry and object-level
meta-data. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I fully agree with David Colleen's views that supporting existing
standards will inevitably prove far more beneficial. I also believe it
will open up unprecedented business opportunities for those willing and able
to overlook their own domains and the ubiquitous silo-thinking that one finds
in both academia and the commercial world. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You can choose a different approach and remain years behind the augmented
and virtual reality work already being done by the many Fraunhofer
institutes. Bear in mind that much of this work is very much standards
compliant and supported by large industries in Germany and elsewhere. I
suspect this year's <A title="ISMAAR conference "
href="http://www.ismar09.org/" target=_blank
mce_href="http://www.ismar09.org/">ISMAAR conference </A>will further confirm
who is really doing serious work mashing up data in real world commercial
applications. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Or one can simply ignore it and choose irrelevance.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>A builder's perspective,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Greg Howes<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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webmail="1">
<DIV>-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re: [Geowanking]
[georss] openARML augmented Reality<BR>Markuplanguage ~ extended
KML?<BR>From: Anselm Hook <anselm@gmail.com><BR>Date: Fri, October 09,
2009 1:23 pm<BR>To: Carl Reed <creed@opengeospatial.org><BR>Cc:
geojson <geojson@lists.geojson.org>,
geowanking@geowanking.org,<BR>georss@lists.eogeo.org<BR><BR>A few other
subjective notes:<BR><BR>4) Perhaps one more feature would be to look at how
hard it is to<BR>decorate the description of the geometry with style hints -
is style<BR>attached as a kind of CSS or the like?<BR><BR>5) And one other
thing is ( a personal thing ) is it easy to multiply<BR>instance a
geometry?<BR><BR>6) Finally, for me, I just like the cleanest tidiest
smallest grammar<BR>- one that let's me read it easily; that is terse... I
know that the<BR>conceptual notations are not tied to XML but I do like to
see JSON<BR>expressions or tidier expressions. I'm not a big fan of the
XML<BR><markup> style notations because these days there is nothing
that is<BR>outside the markup zone. Markup meta-data today far overwhelms
the<BR>unmarked regions. Therefore it seems to make little sense to have
the<BR>heavier tags. You could just say something like "title { }"
or<BR>"title: " instead of <title>blah</title>.<BR><BR>7) I sure
like having math operators in my grammar. CSS, even HTML for<BR>me are sadly
lacking and end up being very verbose. I know we all want<BR>dirt simple
parsers but I also really want some minimal abstraction.<BR>This is why I
like HAML and SASS - for terseness. It doesn't have to<BR>be a fully
procedural grammar with conditional expressions but the<BR>fully dumb
declarative grammars cause a lot of needless repetition<BR>that doesn't very
well capture the abstractions that are self-evident<BR>to a human
author.<BR><BR>Anyway... sorry to ramble on... I just do feel those are all
empirical<BR>tests which could be used to measure the utility of a new
grammar<BR>especially for AR which is now effectively making video-game
concepts<BR>mainstream... how well it maps the problem space and how easily
humans<BR>can understand it... aside from the more mundane expected details
of<BR>capturing position, orientation, velocity, meta-data,
relationships<BR>and other kinds of things that one might want to
capture.<BR><BR>-
me<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Geowanking
mailing list<BR>Geowanking@geowanking.org<BR><A
href="http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org"
target=_blank>http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></BODY></HTML>