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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sean,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good plan. As a consumer of the GeoJSON spec I am hoping that you can get the spec into a formal standards organization (IETF it appears) and only change whatever non-substantive things it takes to get GeoJSON exactly as it is (and has been) into an acceptable form for that organization.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>…steve <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org [mailto:geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sean Gillies<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> Tim Schaub<br><b>Cc:</b> geojson@lists.geojson.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [GeoJSON] Removing CRS from GeoJSON<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>All,<br><br>How about this for a plan: submit an I-D that deprecates the old crs object, omits the new proposed crsURN object, and doesn't otherwise change the <a href="http://geojson.org">geojson.org</a> spec. After it is submitted, we reexamine the CRS situation in light of comments we'll (hopefully) get. My hypothesis is that this compatibility-breaking change doesn't actually break very much in practice.<br><br>As a consequence there will be what looks to a lot of GIS folks like a gap in the spec. We'll need to be able to live with the multiple gap-filling measures they'll come up with. For example, Tim, what's GeoServer going to do to satisfy WFS requests for GeoJSON in EPSG:27700 (or urn:ogc:def:epsg::27700)? <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Tim Schaub <<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tim, I think the situation that we have at the moment is better than you describe, but not by much. We have “allow any CRS and axis order will always be lon/lat or easting/northing”. We did that to avoid the burden of carrying around axis order knowledge. But it still has the burden on needing to know what EPSG:27700, or whatever, means. Web clients still have to get the WKT, Proj.4 string, etc, from that id (assuming that they can work with the result). So we dodged one bullet, but not the other, arguably more complex, one.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regarding the bullet dodging, web clients don't actually have to know squat about EPSG:27700 if they use GeoJSON and WMS 1.1 - they just have to match strings to know that they are the same. WMS 1.1 described a rendering service where coordinate order could be mapped to rendering concepts like "top" and "left" (well known by web clients who deal with images). GeoJSON maintained the same - a known mapping of coordinate order to rendering orientation. So we very intentionally made GeoJSON work well with existing rendering services.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Here’s a pull request of mine:</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/3" target="_blank">https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/3</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Martin</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org" target="_blank">geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org" target="_blank">geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Schaub<br><b>Sent:</b> 15 May 2013 05:41<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:geojson@lists.geojson.org" target="_blank">geojson@lists.geojson.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [GeoJSON] Removing CRS from GeoJSON</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>So as to avoid hijacking Sean's thread, I'll start a new one here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>I'm in favor of restricting the allowed coordinate reference systems for GeoJSON objects to 1: latitude, longitude coordinates relative to an ellispoidal CRS based on the WGS84 datum.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>I think the second best alternative would be to restrict to 2 CRS: CRS84 or EPGS:3857.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>I don't like the "allow any CRS and let axis order follow the CRS" because I think it either reduces interoperability or imposes an unreasonable burden on web clients (I don't know of a good web service - or really want to depend on one - that provides axis order information for arbitrary CRS URN, and the table is too big to ask every client to carry around).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>I apologize for having missed earlier "discussion" [1]. I haven't dug down to that epoch in my inbox yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>And I'm in favor of the proposed RFC to IETF [2].<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><a href="https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/2" target="_blank">https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/2</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>[1] <a href="http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000712.html" target="_blank">http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000712.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>[2] <a href="http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000713.html" target="_blank">http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000713.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Tim<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>PS - Do the build artifacts (xml, txt, etc) need to be in the repo? If so, can someone update the README.md with detail on building them?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>PPS - Mildly curious what it means to be "commented out" as an author. I do see a comment that suggests authors should be asked if they are willing to be authors. Happy to entertain that question.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>-- <br>Tim Schaub<br>OpenGeo <a href="http://opengeo.org/" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org/</a><br>Expert service straight from the developers.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>Tim Schaub<br>OpenGeo <a href="http://opengeo.org/" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org/</a><br>Expert service straight from the developers.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>GeoJSON mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GeoJSON@lists.geojson.org">GeoJSON@lists.geojson.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.geojson.org/listinfo.cgi/geojson-geojson.org" target="_blank">http://lists.geojson.org/listinfo.cgi/geojson-geojson.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Sean Gillies <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>