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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16.05.13 20:26, Sean Gillies wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAOodmJru33wMHf0RCE0VeSSmLLuzRNrSyKW6SxKONvT6g0zsNA@mail.gmail.com"
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        <div>All,<br>
          <br>
          How about this for a plan: submit an I-D that deprecates the
          old crs object, omits the new proposed crsURN object, and
          doesn't otherwise change the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://geojson.org">geojson.org</a> spec. After it is
          submitted, we reexamine the CRS situation in light of comments
          we'll (hopefully) get. My hypothesis is that this
          compatibility-breaking change doesn't actually break very much
          in practice.<br>
          <br>
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    <br>
    I think this would be very good. Requests for comments are a good
    thing :-) and there are mayn revisions imagineable: As an example
    Fielding, R., Ed. and J. Reschke, Ed., “Hypertext Transfer Protocol
    (HTTP/1.1): Message Syntax and Routing”
    draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-22, 23 February 2013.
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging/</a>.
    Have finished the working group call for comments as of April, 30
    and I think there will be a draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-23
    coming up ...<br>
    <br>
    All the best,<br>
    <br>
    Stefan.<br>
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    <title>odata-v4.0-wd02-part1-protocol-2013-05-16</title>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAOodmJru33wMHf0RCE0VeSSmLLuzRNrSyKW6SxKONvT6g0zsNA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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        <div>As a consequence there will be what looks to a lot of GIS
          folks like a gap in the spec. We'll need to be able to live
          with the multiple gap-filling measures they'll come up with.
          For example, Tim, what's GeoServer going to do to satisfy WFS
          requests for GeoJSON in EPSG:27700 (or
          urn:ogc:def:epsg::27700)? <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Tim
          Schaub <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org" target="_blank">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
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              <div class="im"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Tim,
                  I think the situation that we have at the moment is
                  better than you describe, but not by much. We have
                  “allow any CRS and axis order will always be lon/lat
                  or easting/northing”. We did that to avoid the burden
                  of carrying around axis order knowledge. But it still
                  has the burden on needing to know what EPSG:27700, or
                  whatever, means. Web clients still have to get the
                  WKT, Proj.4 string, etc, from that id (assuming that
                  they can work with the result). So we dodged one
                  bullet, but not the other, arguably more complex, one.</span><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_extra">
                <div class="gmail_quote">
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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                      <p class="MsoNormal">
                        <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
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                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Regarding the bullet dodging, web clients don't
                    actually have to know squat about EPSG:27700 if they
                    use GeoJSON and WMS 1.1 - they just have to match
                    strings to know that they are the same.  WMS 1.1
                    described a rendering service where coordinate order
                    could be mapped to rendering concepts like "top" and
                    "left" (well known by web clients who deal with
                    images).  GeoJSON maintained the same - a known
                    mapping of coordinate order to rendering
                    orientation.  So we very intentionally made GeoJSON
                    work well with existing rendering services.</div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="h5">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div> <br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                        <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-GB">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Here’s
                              a pull request of mine:</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/3"
                                target="_blank">https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/3</a></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Martin</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                            1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
                            <div>
                              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
                                      lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
                                    lang="EN-US"> <a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org"
                                      target="_blank">geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org</a>
                                    [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org"
                                      target="_blank">geojson-bounces@lists.geojson.org</a>]
                                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Schaub<br>
                                    <b>Sent:</b> 15 May 2013 05:41<br>
                                    <b>To:</b> <a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:geojson@lists.geojson.org"
                                      target="_blank">geojson@lists.geojson.org</a><br>
                                    <b>Subject:</b> [GeoJSON] Removing
                                    CRS from GeoJSON</span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">So as to avoid
                                    hijacking Sean's thread, I'll start
                                    a new one here.</p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">I'm in favor of
                                      restricting the allowed coordinate
                                      reference systems for GeoJSON
                                      objects to 1: <span>latitude,
                                        longitude coordinates relative
                                        to an ellispoidal CRS based on
                                        the WGS84 datum.</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I think
                                        the second best alternative
                                        would be to restrict to 2 CRS:
                                        CRS84 or EPGS:3857.</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">
                                       </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I don't
                                        like the "allow any CRS and let
                                        axis order follow the CRS"
                                        because I think it either
                                        reduces interoperability or
                                        imposes an unreasonable burden
                                        on web clients (I don't know of
                                        a good web service - or really
                                        want to depend on one - that
                                        provides axis order information
                                        for arbitrary CRS URN, and the
                                        table is too big to ask every
                                        client to carry around).</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
                                        apologize for having missed
                                        earlier "discussion" [1]. I
                                        haven't dug down to that epoch
                                        in my inbox yet.</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>And I'm
                                        in favor of the proposed RFC to
                                        IETF [2].</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/2"
                                          target="_blank">https://github.com/GeoJSONWG/draft-geojson/pull/2</a></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">
                                       </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>[1] <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000712.html"
                                          target="_blank">http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000712.html</a></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>[2] <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000713.html"
                                          target="_blank">http://lists.geojson.org/pipermail/geojson-geojson.org/2013-April/000713.html</a></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Tim</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>PS - Do
                                        the build artifacts (xml, txt,
                                        etc) need to be in the repo? If
                                        so, can someone update the
                                        README.md with detail on
                                        building them?</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>PPS -
                                        Mildly curious what it means to
                                        be "commented out" as an author.
                                        I do see a comment that suggests
                                        authors should be asked if they
                                        are willing to be authors. Happy
                                        to entertain that question.</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">
                                      -- <br>
                                      Tim Schaub<br>
                                      OpenGeo <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://opengeo.org/"
                                        target="_blank">http://opengeo.org/</a><br>
                                      Expert service straight from the
                                      developers.</p>
                                  </div>
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                              </div>
                            </div>
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                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5"><br>
                    <br clear="all">
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    -- <br>
                    Tim Schaub<br>
                    OpenGeo <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://opengeo.org/" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org/</a><br>
                    Expert service straight from the developers.<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            GeoJSON mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:GeoJSON@lists.geojson.org">GeoJSON@lists.geojson.org</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://lists.geojson.org/listinfo.cgi/geojson-geojson.org"
              target="_blank">http://lists.geojson.org/listinfo.cgi/geojson-geojson.org</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <br>
        -- <br>
        Sean Gillies
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</pre>
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